Closed [Revision] Song (draft 1)

[Crimson]

Author's notes:

I am proposing a revision to the Song wiki article in addition to a new Spell Creation wiki article for Song that will give Players additional information.

Since Song is no longer Astral Magic but metaphysical magic similar to Adjuration, Ikos, and Spellbreaking, I think that we can trim the references to ara. I also added a techniques section since the Arcana techniques article only apply to Astral magic.

The goal of this revision is to make is easier for new players to pick up Song. The revisions plus the Spellsong Creation wiki article is also intended to be an easy reference for new and returning peer moderators.

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The basics and standard spells of the metaphysical Magic sphere of Song.

Abstract​

As musical Magic, Song utilizes the inherent frequency that exists in the Material Plane. Bards can manipulate resonant harmonies that create positive effects like boosting morale or increasing the mobility and reflexes of their targets. Spellsongs can also make use of dissonant harmonies that produce negative effects like demoralizing or crippling their targets with feelings of hopelessness and fear. Lastly, spellsongs can create sonic attacks or carry the Bard's voice over large distances by manipulating sound waves.

Unlike essence-based magic, Spellsongs do not generate Arcana Contamination nor is Bardic magic affected by spellbreaking (e.g. Spell Bounce, etc.). Bards cannot imbue or enchant their spellsongs onto objects for later use. Furthermore, Astral mages are not able to dispel or counter-spell Song magic using traditional Arcane techniques.

Further Reading: A Primer to Magic, Spellbreaking, Spellsong Creation

Learning Spells​

Aspiring Bards may learn the standard songs by either having another Bard impart them or by studying musical treatises. Listed below are spellsongs that are most commonly taught to Bards at each level but are not exhaustive or limiting. Bards also have the ability to create their own unique spellsongs within the aspects of Song.

Factors such as damage done, duration, distance, area of effect, and the like are dependent on the level of the spell and caster as well as the spellsong type (verse, chant, or shout).

Example:
An Initiate's Anthem of Aelyria (verse) can grant one positive effect to a few people immediately around the Bard.
A Grand Maestro's Anthem of Aelyria (verse) can grant multiple positive effects to hundreds of people inside a large town.

An Initiate's Cinthera's Accelerando (chant) could allow the Bard's small party to travel twice as fast without extra effort.
A Grand Maestro's Cinthera's Accelerando (chant) could allow hundreds of people to travel twice as fast while fully armored and carrying twice their weight in cargo without extra effort.

An Initiate's Scales of Dissonance (shout) can cause ear pain to a few people immediately around the Bard.
A Grand Maestro's Scales of Dissonance (shout) could cause hundreds of people inside a fortress to have severe headaches and become temporarily unable to fight or cast spells.

Unlike traditional mages, Bards do not require the use of reagents or amplification for any of their spellsongs.

Bard Techniques​

Cast- once unbound, Bards can create vibrations that affect the frequencies found in people and objects. The success of this process is dependent on the well-being of the Bard's physical and mental state (severe distractions can prevent them from focusing on the frequencies while physical harm will prevent them from performing their songs), as well as the distance and movements of their targets. Bards can cast their spellsongs in three different styles: as a verse, chant, or shout.

Verse - verses are a type of spellsong in which any effects only take place during the actual playing of the song itself (with the effects usually starting to manifest after the first stanza or chorus). Once the song stops, the effect also stops. If the verse is interrupted, the spellsong fails and the Bard must start over. Verses are generally very long and have powerful effects.​

​

Chant- chants are a type of spellsong in which a result is only unleashed upon the completion of the entire song (usually one stanza and a chorus). After it is finished, however, the Bard no longer needs to continue performing the song to enjoy the benefits. This is why chants are regarded as low-maintenance spellsongs that have a relatively short duration and have weaker effects. If the chant is interrupted, the song fails and the Bard must start over.​

​

Shout- shouts are a type of spellsong in which the Bard gives but a single burst of powerful sonic energy. The effects are instantaneous and very short-lived, making shouts useful in a pinch and are generally employed to deliver a limited form of damage against one or more targets.​

​

Impart: A Bard can teach another Bard a spellsong by putting the composition and harmonies into their mind. The recipient must be a willing participant and appropriate level to be able to understand the compositions and harmonies. Spellsongs cannot be imparted to the mundane or to other mages of different spheres.

Unbind: A Bard can unlock the mind of potential practitioners, enabling them to perceive and practice Song Magic. The newly-unbound Bard will experience a vivid dream or vision, personal and unique to them, and will then be able to cast spellsongs. Unlike Astral mages, Bards may not be unbound to a separate sphere of magic and become a Hedgemage.
Note: Only Journeyman or higher Bards may unbind; Initiates may not.
Further Reading: Hedgemages

Spell List​

Initiate​

Anthem of Aelyria
Type: Verse
Targets: Area of Effect
Description:
The Imperial March of the Aelyrian Empire, also the Royal March of the Kingdom of Aelyria, was written originally by High Queen Melody de Lylles. It is the stirring national anthem of the Aelyrian Nation which, so long as the March is played, invokes the spirit of glory causing a few notable changes in the companions about the musician: Combat maneuvers will be quickened with a minor haste effect OR party members will find themselves to have increased physical strength OR those allied with the Bard will gain the benefits of being slightly resistant to fear effects and mundane intimidation due to increased battle morale. A Bard may cast different variations of this spellsong in their party to apply all three effects simultaneously.

Cinthera's Accelerando
Type: Chant
Targets: Area of Effect
Description:
Syncopated rhythms are the trademark of this eternal classic written by a Medonian princess. Cinthera's Accelerando enables the Bard's party to travel at an increased pace without any additional effort.

Scales of Dissonance
Type: Verse
Targets: Area of Effect
Description:
An ear-piercing scream of alternating, opposing chords that rivet up and down the scales creates one of the most cacophonous, but simplest, pieces of music known. Similar to the stoning of a heretic, the Scales of Dissonance will produce a light wave of pummeling damage for the duration that it is played in an area of effect designated by the performer of this dreadful piece. Alternatively, the high-pitch sound can be used to inflict headaches instead of physical damage.

Wimbly's Woeful Whispers
Type: Verse
Targets: Single - Other
Description:
Originally created to relay orders across a noisy battlefield, this soft, sullen piece allows a Bard to teleport the sound of their voice to a known target of their choice, enabling them a type of one-way communication.

Journeyman​

Chords of Cacophony
Type: Verse
Targets: Area of Effect
Description:
Composed by the Bard Antiochus under the reign of High Queen Anna the Strict, the Chords of Cacophony are abrasive alterations of notes that generate a wave of appalling music, instilling fear in the targeted individuals listening to it. Those affected may find themselves shaken, causing their attacks to be significantly less accurate, as well as being unable to steady their nerves or concentrate enough to cast their spells. Targeted creatures with weaker willpower may even freeze in fright or attempt to flee.

Gellyn's Gaudeamur
Type: Verse
Targets: Area of Effect
Description:
Named after Prior Gellyn Ankheris, Fifth Prior of the Defenders of the Faith, this chant utilizes a powerful rhythm that protects the group of adventurers allied with the Bard. Targets will feel the weight of their armaments and equipment greatly reduced as well as granting an inherent resistance to magical spells so long as the piece is played.

Lion’s Roar
Type: Shout
Targets: Area of Effect
Description:
Named after the mighty general who created the spellsong, the Lion Baron often used it right before a charge. The Bard gives out a mighty roar, invigorating nearby allies while increasing their stamina and strength. Alternatively, the shout can be used to sap enemy strength, speed, decreases their will to fight.

Melody of Concord
Type: Chant
Targets: Area of Effect
Description:
The soothing sensation of peace and tranquility fills an area whereupon this gentle tune is played. Capable of calming down the restless and soothing the angry, those affected by the spell will find themselves in a very relaxed state and become more inclined to tell the truth. Alternatively, this chant can help the Bard's allies become hyperaware of people's intensions and realize when others are being deceptive or lying.

Virtuoso​

Sonnet in Solo
Type: Chant
Targets: Single - Self or Other
Description:
Reciting a poetic phrase to a sweet melody, the Bard who plays this song shall enchant his party's weaponry with a glowing vortex of vitriolic energy. Their attacks will invoke a concussive blast of sonic power when a strike is landed upon a hard surface. Although the spellsong's effects are diminished when used against bare flesh and cloth, when used against armored opponents, the Sonnet in Solo works wonders for rupturing the flesh beneath. The aura lasts as long as the song is played. The Bard's allies are also granted armor comprised of swirling sonic energy that acts a temporary shield against minor and moderate physical blows.

Tempest Force
Type: Shout
Targets: Area of Effect
Description:
The Bard gives out a mighty shout which holds tremendous force behind it. Anything that stands within the shout’s path, be it object or living being, will find themselves forcefully impeded as if strong winds were slamming into them. Those closest to the Bard may be violently hurled or flung backwards.

Vikrius in Presto
Type: Verse
Targets: Area of Effect
Description:
Vikrius in Presto originates from the lands to the far West of the Aelyrian Empire. A favorite of archers and mages, those graced by its beneficial aura will find their missiles and spells ‘assisted’ by guiding winds, greatly increasing their accuracy. While played this powerful piece also increases the speed at which the party can reload their weaponry and remain focused despite the din of battle.

Maestro​

Destra Sinistra
Type: Shout
Targets: Area of Effect
Description:
A single piercing scream, Destra Sinistra addles and befuddles its targets, sowing confusion and chaos throughout enemy ranks. The Bard's enemies will lose all sense of direction and purpose, causing them to attack their own allies and even aid their foes. Those caught in this shout's effect will also have significantly reduced motor skills causing them to trip over themselves, drop their weaponry, and fail to follow simple directions.

Serenade of Sirens
Type: Verse
Targets: Single - Other (primary), Area of Effect (secondary)
Description:
The Serenade of the Sirens lulls a large group of opponents into a false sense of security, causing them cease hostilities and be drawn to the Bard's position where they will be charmed into a deep sleep. The Bard may instead select a single target to be charmed and they will find themselves helpless to obey the Bard’s telepathic commands for a duration of the spellsong.

Grand Maestro​

Diana Andante
Type: Chant
Targets: Area of Effect
Description:
At the head of an army, the Grand Maestro can perform this piece that will bring increased stamina and strength to the entire military force as they prepare for Combat. Additionally, the melee damage dealt by the forces following the Andante will be significantly higher as they find their melee and ranged weapons guided by the power of the musical enhancement. The spellsong also adds magical damage even to mundane weapons, allowing average soldiers to damage even magically summoned creatures or magically shielded foes. Upon completion of the Andante the force will find the effects last for a lengthy time, usually several hours.

Concerto of Aslan
Type: Verse
Targets: Area of Effect
Description:
So long as this verse is performed, the Grand Maestro can imbue a small city and all its inhabitants and dwellings with a shield of protection that will defend against all forms of magical and physical damage. Defenders will be able to have greater accuracy and stamina, able to fight longer and harder while enjoying greater mental fortitude. Attackers will have reduced accuracy and stamina while suffering from exhaustion and loss of concentration. During the duration of the spellsong, the Grand Maestro is surrounded by a field of sonic energy that causes anyone within 10 feet to hear an extremely high pitch sound that will shatter eardrums and cause nose bleeds.

Credits​

Credits go to Crimson and Indefinite for the original write-ups.

 

[Crimson]

Spellsong Creation​

The aspects, abilities, and limitations of Song magic.

Abstract​

As Musical Magic, Song utilizes the frequencies found in and around objects and people. By employing resonant or dissonant harmonies, Bards can create spellsongs that create positive and negative effectives respectively. Spellsongs can also manipulate sound waves to inflict damage or carry the Bard's voice over a long distance.

Spellsong Creation​

While aspiring Bards are all taught a repertoire of standard spellsongs, those that wish to advance in their craft will also create and primarily use individual and unique spellsongs. These custom spells are limited only by the aspects and properties of Song magic and the imagination of the Bard. The various properties of the custom spellsong, such as range, degree of effect, duration, and the like are dependent on the level of spell and caster.

The number of effects (beneficial or otherwise) that a single spellsong can contain is limited to the level of the spell and caster as well as the type (verse, chant, or shout).

• Initiates can have a maximum of one positive effect or one negative effect per spellsong.
• Journeymen can have a maximum of two positive effects or two negative effects per spellsong.
• Virtuosos can have a combination of up to four effects per verse/chant or two effects per shout.
• Maestros can have a combination of up to six effects per verse/chant or three effects per shout.
• Grand Maestros can have a combination of up to eight effects per verse/chant or four effects per shout.

Further Reading: Song

Spellsongs​

All Spellsong effects should fall into one of the following categories.

Inspire: The Bard uses resonant harmonies in their environment to enhance the mood and create positive feelings in sentient beings. These effects can range from increased enthusiasm and focus (minor) to granting supernatural reflexes and resisting magical fear (major) depending on the level of the spellsong and bard. Factors to consider are the spellsong's range, the number of targets they affect, and severity of effect. The manipulation of frequencies in this manner is usually cast as chants and verses.

Examples:
An Initiate could inspire 2-3 targets at twenty yards to have increased confidence and focus to or grant a single target better reflexes in battle.

A Virtuoso could inspire 5-10 targets at a hundred yards to have greater confidence and focus or grant a single target the ability to resist intimidation and magical fear.

A Grand Maestro could inspire hundreds of targets at four hundred yards to have significantly improved confidence and focus or make one target immune to magical fear and allow them to see through illusions.

Dispirit: The Bard uses dissonant harmonies in their environment to induce weariness and increase negative feelings in sentient beings. These effects can range from lowered morale and discipline (minor) to crippling fear and debilitating confusion (major) depending on the level of the spellsong and bard. Factors to consider are the spellsong's range, the number of targets they affect, and severity of effect. The manipulation of frequencies in this manner is usually cast as chants and verses.

Examples:
An Initiate could cause 2-3 targets at twenty yards feel weary or cause a single target to collapse from exhaustion.

A Virtuoso could cause 5-10 targets at a hundred yards to become clumsy and cowardly or cause a single hero to surrender.

A Grand Maestro could reduce the morale of hundreds of targets at four hundred yards and make everyone feel hopeless and crippled with fear or cause a legendary champion to flee like a coward.


Enhancements: The Bard uses resonant harmonies in their environment to enhance the durability and effectiveness of objects and people. These effects can range from an increased walking speed and stamina (minor) to causing arrows to seemingly 'track' their intended targets even while running (major) depending on the level of the spellsong and bard. Factors to consider are the spellsong's range, the number of targets they affect, and severity of effect. The manipulation of frequencies in this manner is usually cast as chants and verses.

Example:
An Initiate could increase the physical strength of 2-3 targets in a 20 yard radius or bolster the defenses of one person so that cloth becomes as tough as steel.

A Virtuoso could increase the physical strength of 5-10 targets in a 50 yard radius so that they can carry twice their weight without extra effort or grant one person the ability to shatter steel with ordinary weapons.

A Grand Maestro could bolster the defenses of hundreds of targets around them in a 100 yard radius so that their ordinary clothes become as durable as armor or grant one person the supernatural ability to disrupt magical weaves with their bare hands.


Diminutions: The Bard uses dissonant harmonies in their environment to reduce the durability and effectiveness of objects and people. These effects can range from a reduced ability to concentrate (minor) to causing spells and arrows to frequently miss their intended targets (major) depending on the level of the spellsong and bard. Factors to consider are the spellsong's range, the number of targets they affect, and severity of effect. The manipulation of frequencies in this manner is usually cast as chants and verses.

Example:
An Initiate could cause 2-3 targets in a 20 yard radius to become distracted and find it difficult to cast spells or a single target to be tongue-tied and unable to cast spellsongs.

A Virtuoso could cause 5-10 targets in a 50 yard radius to berserk and attack their own allies or a single target to become befuddled and help their foes.

A Grand Maestro could cause hundreds of targets around them in a 100 yard radius to feel drained of their physical and magical energy or a single target's armaments and armor to become as flimsy as parchment.


Sound Waves: A Bard can manipulate sound in order to allow their whispers to travel great distances or create sonic booms with a mere shout. At higher proficiencies, the complexity and volume of these sound waves can be increased. These sound-based spellsongs are mostly used to produce light pommeling damage (minor) to blasting everything backward in a large area (major) dependent on the level of the spellsong and Bard. The manipulation of frequencies in this manner is usually cast as shouts and verses.

Example:
An Initiate could cause minor headaches and light damage to targets in a 10 yard radius with a single shout or allow a single target to hear their whispers from a short distance (verse)

A Virtuoso could cause nosebleeds and severe headaches to targets in a 50 yard radius with a single shout or allow a gathered group to hear a message from a moderate distance (verse).

A Grand Maestro could cause everything in a hundred yard radius to be flung backwards and suffer blunt force trauma with a single shout or allow a single target many miles away to hear their voice deliver a long message (verse).

Limitations​

• No summons.
• No manipulations or illusions.
• No healing.
• Limited damage.
• Only sentient beings and mundane objects are affected.

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Special thanks to the writers of the current wiki articles from essence-based magic. I used the format and some of their verbiage as a starting point for this draft.

 

[Crimson]

Reserved spot for draft 2 notes.

• add verbiage about different types of instruments
  • different instruments / styles can help manipulate / channel different 'frequencies'
  • e.g. rhythm/percussion instruments can aid in spellsongs that enhance speed, strings and wind instruments can aid spellsongs that evoke emotions, etc.
  • emphasis on synergy NOT corequisites or prerequisites
  • Song skill alone can allow mastery of Song (does not require additional skills)
• Imbue / Enchant mechanism?
• Increase (minor), Double speed (major) for effects
• Interruptions when casting (clarification)
  • stanzas, choruses (clarification, intended as a minimum before effects start)
• Shout (clarification, mechanics)
• Anthem of Aelyria (maybe move to Adept?)
• change spellsongs that affect objects directly (guided missiles lol)
• concrete numbers vs. general guidelines for # of effects per level or emphasis that lower level spells have weaker effects overall
  • verbiage about number of spellsongs per level, per day
  • "Regardless of what the spellsong does, the vibrations will cause the vis to degenerate, depleting the Bard’s reserves. Hence, the amount of spellsongs a Bard can cast per brightening is the same as the number of spells any other mage at the same level can cast."

 

[Eyvind Redbeard]

I've given it a read and couldn't help but be intrigued why only sentient beings can be affected since Song is something that exists in nature. Does it mean we can't have Disney Aurora moments with songbirds or contests with sirens?

This is not a joke question. I find this kind of odd interactions something innate to uncommon skills like Song.​

 

[Crimson]

Hi Eyvind,

In this revision draft, I am staying within the existing parameters of the 'standard' Song spells. I noticed that Indef / the MT removed the spells that affected wildlife and plants from the older versions so that it's differentiated from Druidism.

I agree that the spheres of magic need to have delineated, distinct spheres of influence. Too much overlap between the different types of magic was not fun for mods and Players last time.

 

[Aglet]

I like the inclusions of comparing what an Initiate can do, compared to a Maestro.

Any modifications if the Bard has skills in an instrument or two?

 

[Crimson]

Hi Aglet,

I think that we could add verbiage about types of instruments under casting.

Maybe some types of instruments make it easier to manipulate certain types of 'frequencies'?

 

[Aglet]

Either that, or a certain level of skill in an instrument (perhaps level 3?) might temporarily unlock a single spell from the next level up in Bard? Some incentive for the character to diversify so that not all Bards are opera singers in the game xD

 

[Crimson]

Maybe proficiency in a separate instrument skill can increase range and area of effect?

I'm not sure about unlocking higher level spells. But boosting their existing spellsongs make sense in terms of mechanics and theme.

 

[Indefinite]

Haven't been able to sit down and read through the entirety of it quite yet (will definitely do so soon, hopefully!) but a few comments on the ongoing discussion:

Any modifications if the Bard has skills in an instrument or two?

Maybe some types of instruments make it easier to manipulate certain types of 'frequencies'?

Either that, or a certain level of skill in an instrument (perhaps level 3?) might temporarily unlock a single spell from the next level up in Bard? Some incentive for the character to diversify so that not all Bards are opera singers in the game xD

Maybe proficiency in a separate instrument skill can increase range and area of effect?

I'm not sure about unlocking higher level spells. But boosting their existing spellsongs make sense in terms of mechanics and theme.

No. Let's not go down this path.

Song is inherently separate from what musical medium you use to accomplish it. The thing is, you don't even need to sing. You can tap your fingers and get an effect. You can scream and shout and get an effect.

'Music' isn't necessarily a part of what a practitioner of Song does. (Never got down what the best term for this is. We have spellsongs. Spell... singers?) So conferring bonuses because of them using a specific instrument doesn't make sense to me. If the aim of this revision is to make Song easier to pick up, then adding further complication with having certain instruments grant certain bonuses isn't the way to do it.

 

[Crimson]

Thank you for your input, Indef. I see what you’re saying. I look forward to your other comments after you’ve looked over this first draft.

In regards to your comments above, I have two main concerns.

First, your account is “admin”. So when you say “no”, it can have a chilling effect. Does that mean that “staff” can veto proposals from the community? If we are moving away from the central power model and toward a community centered model, does that mean that the community gets to decide who has veto powers?

Second, Song is described as Musical Magic. So it does not make sense to me that it is separate from music. Thematically, it makes sense for musicians to be better singers and performers. Bards are musicians and performers. Mechanically, it makes sense that better control over sound and rhythm improves the manipulation of “frequencies”. If a bard PC tapping their fingers or making random noise tries to cast a spellsong, they will get minimal (if any) success. All of the standard spells suggest a musical performance. Even the shouts reference music theory. So that should be the baseline for bards.

 

[Aglet]

While I am open to constructive forms of feedback, I'm inclined to agree with Crimson on his first point. The power differential between the 'staff' team and the 'non staff' volunteers is quite large.

How responses are phrased makes just a small piece of the cultural puzzle that tinges how this site is experienced. This requires taking into consideration the amount of leverage a person's position has in the community. When I say 'no', it doesn't carry much weight. When Indefinite or Jacob says 'no', that response is usually assumed to be final. No further discussion permitted.

While this might not have been the way Indef is used to interacting, given that this site is still relatively new, now that they're one of (three? six?) individuals with what appears to be complete power over the direction of this site and the privileges of its members, it's definitely worth acknowledgement. With that in mind,

No. Let's not go down this path

Indefinite, was it your intention to cease all further discussion on this thread relating to my suggestion... or are you opening the floor to debate on your point of disagreement? Because your use of punctuation there suggests the former.

While we have use of the Worldforge, and the earlier posts on this site aspiring for community-based governance, I hope that the intention was to permit collegiate discussions on the things we wanted to see in the game.

On that note,

Second, Song is described as Musical Magic.

This was the point on Crimson's draft I had latched onto with my suggestion. I apologise if that aspect was not made clearer in my response.

When I imagine a sphere/skill that benefits from a certain skillset, rather than making the skillset a barrier to use, I imagine it as an enhancement. For example, a football player does not need to learn ballet to play the sport, but one who does is often a better player thanks to the training which ballet offers. I imagined the same to be the case with bards.

As bardism is a performance-based skillset, any training which enhances that (acting, singing, playing an instrument, etc) could allow a higher-level player to embellish their magic to higher outcomes. Not a 'bonus' per se, but like using the tool as a conduit to enhance the magic itself. Like how a druid might carry around a wooden staff or seeds, or an elementalist might collect ingredients to turn a low-level spell into a projectile.

A singer is all well and good, a singer-songwriter becomes famous, a singer-songwriter who can play their own accompaniment on the piano is a one-person show. Taking from some real-life examples (Elton John, David Grohl, John Legend, Alicia Keys), I had imagined that lower-level bards could do some cool tricks with just tapping and yelling, but in order to proceed to Mastery it would make a great deal of sense for that practitioner to be able to wield tools to stunning effect. Some additional training in a non-magic skill could be what makes Bards unique to other types of magic users.

'Music' isn't necessarily a part of what a practitioner of Song does. (Never got down what the best term for this is. We have spellsongs. Spell... singers?)

This bit was what felt really contradictory. 'Music' and 'song' and 'spell...singers'? It's right there - you said it yourself.

Music is a part of what a practitioner of Song does. A person who chooses to become a thespian bard might take it in a slightly different direction, as I can imagine an in-game equivalent of Ian McKellan or Peter Capaldi being able to have a similar rousing power to someone who sings an anthem. However, the underlying conduit is still 'performance', as an art.

If Indefinite's concept is to keep write-ups separate, perhaps a section just before Mastery/Maestro, suggesting paired-skills (which could complement a magic sphere) might work? That way players have a choice if they wanted to become a singing-bard or a thespian-bard or a lute-bard, etc etc, but it's not woven into the writeup as something which is mandatory. This way players would still have the encouragement to be creative when they're developing at a higher level, and can tweak their PC's concept into something unique, which suits them best. This would also lower the barrier to entry, as earlier-levels could still pick up the magic without having prior instrument training. Then, combining a relevant arts-skill would be a logical incentive to proceed to the upper levels in later gameplay. (Because, otherwise, how exactly would a player write their Maestro-thread? By...Yelling really loudly all the time to level up? Strategically tapping tables and doorways at an Inn?)

 

[Z'kron Kha'Serith]

In regards to

First, your account is “admin”. So when you say “no”, it can have a chilling effect. Does that mean that “staff” can veto proposals from the community? If we are moving away from the central power model and toward a community centered model, does that mean that the community gets to decide who has veto powers?"

That's probably a larger discussion as to the structure of the site that needs to be had. It would be useful if it included some clarification on when someone is wearing their admin-hat and their commenting-as-a-community member hat, as well as a consideration regarding pathways to volunteer contributor roles.

(I recall some of the past AL's were quite hesitant to pass comment on issues for fear their initial perspectives were being viewed with authority they did not wish to convey. )

In terms of Indefinite's actual critique I would also be hesitant to add any type of skill dependencies to song magic; which is essentially what happens if you have a situation where "music plus magic" is significantly stronger than "magic alone" in terms of the magical effects.

I think the central point of contention, though is what the song sphere is. Is it a sphere of "sound and resonance" or a sphere that is intrinsically bardic in nature? I would probably lean towards the first - if someone wants to be a maestro with no musical talent who just screams terrifyingly all the time that's pretty punk - but I can see the other perspective as well.

 

[Gye'ron Val Oriden]

In chat someone described Ikos as the alphabet of the universe and Song as the vocabulary used to relate it. A lot of interesting music can be made just by hitting a table to a beat, slapping body parts, or banging garbage can lids together. A Haka can be emotionally stirring in an inspirational or terrifying way.

I personally like the idea of tying someone's medium into their progression in Song. For example if they've chosen a percussion instrument, or voice, or body slapping, or piano, or the lute as their medium, their ability to perform increases as their proficiency with their magic does - which frankly makes sense because they're using that medium to perform their magic all the time. There shouldn't be a need to make PCs level those two intertwined things separately, just as we do with Healing or Thieving or Ranger vocational skills.

Song is a special case, and there's no reason it can't follow that philosophy. I think that way, conceptually, everyone gets to have their cake and eat it too on this particular point.

In short: your instrument is like a chosen proficiency in your craft. Perhaps something about being attuned with Song magic unlocks a sort of 'genius' toward musical mediums - an innate understanding of how to produce powerful effects with various mediums of sound and resonance. It could be that every level you can add a proficiency (lute -> singing -> percussive body sounds -> harp -> piano if you so chose). Maybe your character would never have the technical proficiency or ability to teach that instrument that a mundane practitioner would, but they would have a certain prodigal proficiency with it because they understand it on an innate level - or maybe the magic just covers up the muck ups with having their finger on the wrong fret or singing off-key.

 

[Grim]

I'm not an expert on Song so I'm not going to comment too much on that, but rather throw in the old worldforge work logic.

Here's the thing. No skill should rely on any other skill. This has been a mantra in worldforge development for years and years at this point and we worked to root out the ones that did. There are a few remainders, such as Sworddancing (?) but that's very much a holdover and not so much a skill as an IC institution.

Keep in mind that this game moves at a glacial pace, getting a skill to lvl 3 can take years. If I also have to get a secondary skill to lvl 3 to get the most out of the first skill, then that's kind of a crap deal. It effectively doubles the amount of work I need to put in.

Someone was really trying hard to bring wands into being a thing with Arcana, how would you feel if you needed to get lvl 3 Wandslinging if you wanted to get the most out of your Necromancy? And there was a time when taking Meditation was considered super important because it cut down on the time it took to achieve Clara, if you wanted to call yourself a Ranger you needed lvl 3 sword, lvl 2 hunting, and lvl 3 survival or something like that. It's not something we want to go back to.

Skills can certainly be synergistic and work well in tandem with other skills, but there should never be a requirement for other skills to be involved in order to get the most possible out of them.

I think it's better to stick in the wheelhouse of what the original purpose of the rewrite is rather than adding stuff.

So with that said, let's try to circle the debate back to what the actual write up is rather than what it might be in the future

 

[Crimson]

I absolutely love the perspectives that you've all brought into this discussion. Going off what Gye'ron mentioned, I'd like to amend that little gem: Ikos describes our universe and Song describes how we feel about it (citation).

Grim and Aglet, I think that you're both in agreement. We are not suggesting that Bards need to have skills in vocals or instruments or performance. But there is an undeniable synergy between performance skill and musical talent. Aglet mentioned football and ballet. Synergy not prerequisites or corequisites.

I was there during the "wand proposal" and I sunk time and energy into meditation because it cut down Clara times. I'm glad that we moved away from those situations. But I do not think that Aglet was suggesting that we create a "Ranger situation" at all.

Gye'ron articulated how I felt about instruments and other styles (and even skills) being used alongside Song. It's added flavor. You can have different types of Bards. Which kind of goes back to what Indefinite may have envisioned for the current write-up. You can have Bards who use rhythm, Bards who specialize in shouts (by, well, shouting), and maybe Bards who are mute but instead channel their magic through their instruments. All these examples do not create a Song + Skill situation. They're just expressing Musical Magic in unique ways.

Z'kron, I agree that we should have that larger conversation in a different thread. Based on our discussion here, though, I think that we're all trying to stay within the 'wheelhouse' of Song as it exists post-Arcana Revamp. Unless the community feels very strongly about this issue, this proposal is not intended to dramatically change how Song functions (i.e. mataphysical magic that manipulates sound/frequencies to achieve magical effects). The second part of this proposal (Spellsong Creation) is intended to delineate the four 'specializations' of Song magic.

 

[Indefinite]

I decided to consciously sit through and take the time to make sure to read this instead of just catching up on posting, so I hope y'all appreciate this.

I don't think I managed to communicate my point very well with that initial post, and there was a degree of finality to what I said that I didn't intend (the point was to foster discussion while providing rationale, so my apologies there), but Z'kron and Grim managed to succinctly capture my concerns, more or less, and I think we've managed to reach the same general sort of conclusion, so I won't go any further with it.

The other concerns, as mentioned, probably belong in their own discussion thread as opposed to being continued here.

Now, for the actual article:

Bards cannot imbue or enchant their spellsongs onto objects for later use.

This was added in, yes? And while never really mentioned in the original, it's kind of interesting to think about whether or not Song should have an equivalent for something like this. I do think there is precedent for Spellsingers (it's sticking, this term) to be able to store songs in objects before, imagine something like a music box that plays a specific tune, or a 'grenade' that can store a sonic blast.

I don't think I'll cry terribly if that possibility is removed, it probably does make sense considering it doesn't mesh too well with the overall theme of the metaphysical magics.

An Initiate's Cinthera's Accelerando (chant) could allow the Bard's small party to travel twice as fast without extra effort.

Twice as fast feels like a bit much. Well, these examples are always going to be a little difficult to write with fully concrete language, but still. 2x? Feels like a lot. Thoughts?

If the verse is interrupted, the spellsong fails and the Bard must start over.

That doesn't seem right? Verses are the ones that last for the duration of the song itself.

verses are a type of spellsong in which any effects only take place during the actual playing of the song itself (with the effects usually starting to manifest after the first stanza or chorus).

chants are a type of spellsong in which a result is only unleashed upon the completion of the entire song (usually one stanza and a chorus)

I really don't think it's necessary to add these parts about stanzas/choruses. That just feels like it makes this overly complicated?

Shout- shouts are a type of spellsong in which the Bard gives but a single burst of powerful sonic energy. The effects are instantaneous and very short-lived, making shouts useful in a pinch and are generally employed to deliver a limited form of damage against one or more targets.

I'm not too sure about the wording here. The implication seems to be that shouts are primarily used for sonic damage, which isn't the case. You can condense the effect of a song into a Shout.

As an extremely basic example of how these types compare:

Verse
Effect: Medium
Time to Play: Long
Duration: Long

Chant
Effect: Low
Time to Play: Medium
Duration: Medium

Shout
Effect: High
Time To Play: Short
Duration: Short

Anthem of Aelyria
Type: Verse
Targets: Area of Effect
Description:
The Imperial March of the Aelyrian Empire, also the Royal March of the Kingdom of Aelyria, was written originally by High Queen Melody de Lylles. It is the stirring national anthem of the Aelyrian Nation which, so long as the March is played, invokes the spirit of glory causing a few notable changes in the companions about the musician: Combat maneuvers will be quickened with a minor haste effect OR party members will find themselves to have increased physical strength OR those allied with the Bard will gain the benefits of being slightly resistant to fear effects and mundane intimidation due to increased battle morale. A Bard may cast different variations of this spellsong in their party to apply all three effects simultaneously.

I'm not entirely sure that I like the spellsong's effects being chopped up like this, but I'll continue this discussion later on. (At this point, you might as well just make new spellsongs, I'd think?)

Vikrius in Presto
Type: Verse
Targets: Area of Effect
Description:
Vikrius in Presto originates from the lands to the far West of the Aelyrian Empire. A favorite of archers and mages, those graced by its beneficial aura will find their missiles and spells ‘assisted’ by guiding winds, greatly increasing their accuracy. While played this powerful piece also increases the speed at which the party can reload their weaponry and remain focused despite the din of battle.

There's no alterations from you here, but this specific spellsong is admittedly one that I think could perhaps use with some altering. Now that I dwell on it, I'm not... entirely sure I actually like the bit where arrows are 'magically assisted' to increase accuracy.

I feel like maybe it's more appropriate to say that the archers are just enhanced to a point where they're more likely to shoot accurately? Better mental acumen, better able to lead targets, that sort of thing? Again, this discussion is partially continued later on. I'd appreciate people's thoughts on this one.

• Initiates can have a maximum of one positive effect or one negative effect per spellsong.
• Journeymen can have a maximum of two positive effects or two negative effects per spellsong.
• Virtuosos can have a combination of up to four effects per verse/chant or two effects per shout.
• Maestros can have a combination of up to six effects per verse/chant or three effects per shout.
• Grand Maestros can have a combination of up to eight effects per verse/chant or four effects per shout.

This is the continuation of my previous note on the revisions to the Anthem of Aelyria.

Concrete numbers are always something to be quibbled over, I feel. That being said, is it not enough to leave it to moderator discretion and just note that the more you try to do with a single spellsong, the weaker the overall effects become?

Why the sudden split at higher levels where verses/chants suddenly operate differently from shouts?

The manipulation of frequencies in this manner is usually cast as chants and verses.

I honestly don't like the inclusion of these in the writeup. It feels discouraging to try and do something other than what's listed. Let a spellsinger cast however they want.

The Bard uses resonant harmonies in their environment to enhance the durability and effectiveness of objects and people

The Bard uses dissonant harmonies in their environment to reduce the durability and effectiveness of objects and people.

Here's that continuation on that discussion on Vikrius in Presto. I honestly dooooon't know if we want to have Song affecting objects like this. Or at least, there should be a very clear delineation between "songs that induce effects in people" and "sonic-related stuff."

The former is for people only. The latter is what can affect objects.

Otherwise, I feel like Song strays a little too much into the territory of Ikonomancy. It's one thing for a Spellsinger to sing at a frequency that shatters glass, or to let out a sonic blast that dents armor. Another for them to be able to "turn armor into as flimsy as parchment". Does that make sense?

Enhancements: The Bard uses resonant harmonies in their environment to enhance the durability and effectiveness of objects and people. These effects can range from an increased walking speed and stamina (minor) to causing arrows to seemingly 'track' their intended targets even while running (major) depending on the level of the spellsong and bard. Factors to consider are the spellsong's range, the number of targets they affect, and severity of effect. The manipulation of frequencies in this manner is usually cast as chants and verses.

Is there much of a need to separate "Inspire" and "Enhance" like this?

Same for "Dispirit" and "Diminutions."

I feel like these could probably just be combined into a general "positive effect" and "negative effect" sort of category?

light pommeling damage

I googled this and apparently "pommel" is actually another term for "pummel," among various other definitions. The more you know!

 

[Crimson]

I'm adding all of your notes for Draft 2. Thanks for taking the time and energy to go through the whole thing, Indef

The more I re-read this draft, the more I get the feeling that 'positive' and 'negative' can be clumped together. I think that I split it so that it was more delineated and closely matched the other "Spell Creation" wiki articles. Four 'specialties' and all that.

I also tend to agree with you about Song affecting people being a good mirror to Ikos affecting objects. But I felt like that changed the skill too much for a proposed revision.

This was the same thought process that I had re: imbuements and enchantments. Pre-Revamp, Song was an essence sphere that could be imbued and enchanted like Astral Magic. I'm open to proposing a similar process for Bards. But I think that thematically (and for balance), Spellsongs seem like something that you did rather than something that you activate from an amulet.

Your ideas and concerns re: hard numbers, I also agree with but, again, those were added largely because the Spell Creation write-ups had hard numbers and limits. And while we're on this topic, I was actually considering removing the 'single target' verbiage in Draft 2. Mostly because it seems like Song's speciality is area of effect.

 

[Indefinite]

Also, one other thing I noticed:

I'll fully admit this isn't ideal but, as we noted, this is less about a full makeover at the moment and more about a revision of what's there.

That being said, removing the references to ara/vis means you've also removed the section about the limits on the number of spell(songs) a Spellsinger can cast:

Regardless of what the spellsong does, the vibrations will cause the vis to degenerate, depleting the Bard’s reserves. Hence, the amount of spellsongs a Bard can cast per brightening is the same as the number of spells any other mage at the same level can cast.

Yes, yes, not a brilliant solution, could probably be redone and worked on later.

But, important to note, I feel.

(You'll notice that there are a lot of parallels being made between Song and the arcana spheres despite Song being a metaphysical magic. I'll admit that the rework probably skewed a little closer to arcana because of how Song was historically pre-Revamp, alas. Not as drastic a makeover as Ikonomancy received, for instance.)

 

[Indefinite]

I also tend to agree with you about Song affecting people being a good mirror to Ikos affecting objects. But I felt like that changed the skill too much for a proposed revision.

I think there's really only one example, Vikrius in Presto, that really pushed the "you can affect objects" line of thinking for spellsongs.

So, I don't think it's really that much of a departure to say that, no, you can't 'enhance' objects like that and exclude it. Correct me if I'm wrong and another spellsong makes reference.

That's just me, though. Feel free to include it in the next draft if you feel that's more appropriate.

This was the same thought process that I had re: imbuements and enchantments. Pre-Revamp, Song was an essence sphere that could be imbued and enchanted like Astral Magic. I'm open to proposing a similar process for Bards. But I think that thematically (and for balance), Spellsongs seem like something that you did rather than something that you activate from an amulet.

I remembered what I was thinking of when I said "no, there's precedent for Song being store-able."

The bracelets that were developed to fight against the Xet in the last mission aboard Starbase Katara. The theory behind them is based in Song, and everybody was given one so that they could crack Xet carapace during a fight. That's basically an imbuement/amulet.

Not saying that historical precedent is final or anything, but, did want to put that concrete example out there.

Your ideas and concerns re: hard numbers, I also agree with but, again, those were added largely because the Spell Creation write-ups had hard numbers and limits. And while we're on this topic, I was actually considering removing the 'single target' verbiage in Draft 2. Mostly because it seems like Song's speciality is area of effect.

Concrete numbers in examples is fine. I'm just not sure about this "X positive effects/negative effects in a spellsong" thing. That's probably a departure, if anything. I think it's better to try and keep it simple.